Tuesday, July 15, 2008

maple lawn threatens burtonsville's "small-town" cred

Clean, sleek and master-planned: Howard County's Maple Lawn wants to give Burtonsville a run for its small-town status.

Ask anyone doing business in Burtonsville what their biggest threat is, and they'll probably name Maple Lawn, the sprawling mixed-use community rising just one exit north at routes 29 and 216 in Fulton. Saturday's Post Real Estate section covers the sprawling development, where the biggest selling point seems to be its so-called "urban" features - like homes named for established D.C. neighborhoods like Adams Morgan and Capitol Hill - among what one resident called "all this rural paradise" of Howard County.

It's ironic that Maple Lawn compares itself to a "small town" on its website, because there's a real small town just two miles south. With its porches, small yards and village green, it looks the part, but it doesn't play it very well. If you're looking for a taste of small-town life, Burtonsville comes a lot closer than anything a new neighborhood can contrive.

At only two homes an acre, Maple Lawn isn't much denser than many of Burtonsville's big-lawn single-family neighborhoods. An interactive map reveals that most homes are on very small lots - roughly an eighth of an acre - but the swaths of open space that are supposed to compensate for it aren't usable. They're pushed to the edges of the development or along the power line that divides Maple Lawn in half - a poor substitute for the Agricultural Reserve that skirts Burtonsville's northern boundary.

People in the article boast of being able to run into their neighbors while "walk[ing] their dogs at 1 o'clock in the morning," but you can't walk to school. Four schools literally sit in the middle of the development, but there are no pedestrian connections to them.

so much more AFTER THE JUMP . . .

Messy, cluttered and unplanned: Route 198 in Burtonsville is a triumph of the small-town business district.

And that might be okay, because you can drop the kids off on your way to running errands, most of which will still require getting in the car. There just isn't enough density to support "convenience retail" within walking distance, even before community backlash over the project's original size forced the developer to lop off over five hundred homes.

As a result, Maple Lawn's "Business District" has such upscale goodies as a tapas bar, lingerie store and a clothing store called Urban Chic that are geared less to locals and more to people scooting up 29 towards the Mall in Columbia. Residents admitted that they still head down to Burtonsville to shop for groceries at Giant, not to mention other "useful stores" like Zimmerman's hardware store or, of course, the Bedding Barn.

Those five hundred lost homes also means that Maple Lawn had to jack up its prices in order to remain economically feasible. Houses here are big - townhouses range up to 4,200 square feet - and expensive, running from the $300's for a condo to $1.7 million for an "estate home." When asked about the community's variety, one resident said "there are retired people whose children are gone, and there are married couples with no kids." The new homeowners are ethnically diverse, the article explains, but the economic mix is scant.

That isn't the case in Burtonsville; in its older sections, lots were developed individually, meaning that families could build as big or small as they had to; as houses turn over, they sell at a variety of prices. Newer developments - subdivisions like Briarcliff Manor or the apartments and townhouses on Blackburn Road - are segregated by income, but still they contribute to a more diverse whole. Almost anyone can afford to live in Burtonsville, meaning that you can and will be exposed to a variety of people. That will not happen in Maple Lawn.

At its best, a small town provides the best of urban and rural - everything you need to live, but with lots of wide-open spaces. Burtonsville can out-do Maple Lawn in both regards. In order to thrive alongside it, we need to start making a point of our "small town credibility," if you will. We may not lure any families or businesses away from Maple Lawn, but we can rub it in their faces when they come down to Giant.

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter how you try to paint a positive picture of supporting small townism for Burtonsville and Silver Spring because it will still be an economic failure just as long as there aren't any attractions of Office and Upscale Retail(including Chain Retail) Growth....

If you really had a True vision of Improving the Quality of life for Eastern Montgomery County you would use Reston, Sterling, and Ballston(Arlington) as examples of Well Planned Mixed Use(Housing, Upscale Retail, and Office) Growth Instead of Economically Depressed Takoma Park(not including Takoma in NW DC) in which most people in the DC area(especially People from DC, NOVA, and most from PG County) don't want to associate with.

You claim to be a young college student but from reading your comentary you sound more like an Middle Age Person that still hold out hope for retroceeding Montgomery County back to the Rural Old Southern days of the roaring 1930's. The reason why I'm saying this is because young people like myself don't wish to live in small town rural america or else most if not all young people would be residing in Iowa or Mississippi instead of the DC, New York, Miami, Boston, Philly, Chicago, San Francisco, and LA areas. Don't get me wrong I 'm not saying that some areas in Montgomery County shouldn't be built like small towns but the Entire County shouldn't be built like small rural towns especially in Eastern Montgomery County where there needs to be an Increasing Number of Office and Upscale Retail so the residence wouldn't be forced to traveled outside the County if not the State towards DC/Northern Virgina in order to find High Paying Employment that matches their Career Goals and shop at upscale retail centers that offers their quality of taste.

Also after reading about maple lawn's issue with the additional housing cut back has proven the theory of why Montgomery County(along with other parts of Maryland) is soo d*a*mn expensive unlike other nearby states(VA/WV, NC/SC, and GA) and that is due to the Anti-Growth/Progressive Gang that will do anything to stop housing growth possibly due the fear of more Middle/Upper Class and Ethnic Minorities(African Americans) will continue to migrate into the county in which the the Anti-Growth/Progressive Gang doesn't like because they would rather Montgomery County and other parts of Maryland to remain mostly Blue Collar Majority Rural(Undeveloped) and Causcassain with a sprinkle of Latin Americans......

I just hope that if they finally do redevelop Burtonsville they will build it in a way that it will entice a True Mix of Upscale Office and Retail Growth and not just a bunch of small Taverns and non-Business Generating Independent Shops.

Dave Murphy said...

As frustrating as it was to read the above comment, I'll keep my focus on your article.

As a Maryland tax payer, I am downright insulted that my dollars go towards subsidizing Howard County's absurdly outdated, economically wasteful, and environmentally dangerous development practices.

Certainly much of Montgomery County isn't much better, but Columbia is a car-oriented train wreck which I hope one day will be in a text book telling students how NOT to design a city, from its meandering illogical roads to its acres of suburban dross even to its utterly embarrassing street names. All of Howard County is a suburb of a suburb, a nowhere that ought to be razed and rebuilt from scratch in my heavily biased opinion.

And call it Maple Lawn, North Laurel, Fulton, or some other pretty name... IT'S STILL SCAGGSVILLE.

God I hate Howard County.

Sligo said...

LOL "North Laurel". It's funny to think of an area co-opting the Laurel name to improve its image.

Thomas Hardman said...

Wow, the anonymous coward doesn't seem to have noticed that Burtonsville does have a combination retail sector and office park, and lots of mom-and-pop type subinesses. What Burtonsville does not have is a walkable business district, unless you consider taking your life in your hands along MD-198 to be "walkable".

And by the way, that remark about "so the residence don't have to travel to DC"... um Strunk and White are spinning in their graves (again, or still) probably because a traveling residence is usually called a "camper" or "RV" or "mobile home".

I'm also astonished to hear that MoCo is majority blue-collar white folks ;iving in the boondocks. This should come as news to Wheaton or Takoma Park residents, or Olney residents for that matter.

Maybe we should all try to stick to getting Burtonsville a more-walkable "downtown", with handy buses to take people down the pike to White Oak or Silver Spring, I guess, and maybe crosscounty to Rockville and nearby points. Which of course begs for a discussion of how much mass transit will be rolling up and down the ICC...

Joe said...

I wasn't aware Burtonsville had small town status.

Dan Reed said...

If you're a trailer park on Route 1 in Howard County, North Laurel sounds absolutely classy. The alternative, of course, is Savage - which is a horrible name for a place with a (somewhat eroding) redneck reputation - or Jessup, which means questions like "so, is that the place with eleven state prisons?"

gohomelexinva said...

Lex, what did I tell you about harrassing the Maryland blogs? go back to you third-rate poor uneducated state while Maryland basks in MAJOR EMPLOYMENT GROWTH from its expertise in AVIATION, BIOTECHNOLOGY, MEDICINE, etc while Virginia is stuck with a bunch of computer geeks making $35K a year thinking they're the top of the world. With MAJOR UPSCALE URBAN RETAIL in BOOMING centers like WHITE FLINT, CHEVY CHASE, BETHESDA, ROCKVILLE, and NATIONAL HARBOR, while depressed Virginia can't wait to get another strip mall with a KFC. The new ICC and PURPLE LINE will leave Virginia in the dust with its on-again off-again rail line to nowhere with a ugly elevated track 50-FEET above the automobile-oriented wasteland that defines Tysons Corner while MARYLAND suburbs grow with major walkable urban development where we are building two Reston Town Centers withing walking distance of each other at TWINBROOK AND NORTH BETHESDA.

Lex, you are a lunatic that needs to go back to your third-rate poor state where you live in a trailer park in that RED NECK INFESTED PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY where you hate spanish people because they are not white trash like you and the rest of your Virginia losers are.

Go back to VA Lex. Do not post on this blog any more. I am not kidding. Go home to VA Lex.

Thomas Hardman said...

> "Joe" said...
>
> I wasn't aware Burtonsville had small town status.

Well, I can't think of too many places in MoCo other than maybe Sunshine that can claim small-town status.

Really, outside of the Rural Heritage zone, it's all varying densities of suburb. However, some places such as Brookville, Sandy Spring/Ashton, and to some degree Burtonsville, retain a functional downtown that was a small town long before the modern Sprawl of Suburbia became so pervasive as to be nearly ubiquitous.

So, Burtonsville can't have actual small town status, but probably it can claim that status moreso than Maple Lawn.

Burtonsville can't quite claim Edge City status as could Olney, because as far as I know, Burtonsville has no hospital.

In the East County (District 4) Ashton and Sandy Spring, and maybe Spencerville and Cloverly, those are pretty much what can be called "small town" hereabouts. Yet even they are pretty much just oases of a previous life before suburbia came, and are generally surrounded by various degrees of suburbia. Brookeville might even be excluded from small-town status, since it doesn't have its own grocery story as far as I can tell.

Anonymous said...

Dave Murphy said...
As frustrating as it was to read the above comment, I'll keep my focus on your article.

As a Maryland tax payer, I am downright insulted that my dollars go towards subsidizing Howard County's absurdly outdated, economically wasteful, and environmentally dangerous development practices.

Certainly much of Montgomery County isn't much better, but Columbia is a car-oriented train wreck which I hope one day will be in a text book telling students how NOT to design a city, from its meandering illogical roads to its acres of suburban dross even to its utterly embarrassing street names. All of Howard County is a suburb of a suburb, a nowhere that ought to be razed and rebuilt from scratch in my heavily biased opinion.

And call it Maple Lawn, North Laurel, Fulton, or some other pretty name... IT'S STILL SCAGGSVILLE.

God I hate Howard County.

July 15, 2008 2:37 AM

RE: Then what the hell do you call the Massive Development Projects south of Maryland called Arlington County, Alexandria, Fairfax County, Prince William County, and Loudon County.......

Its because of Selfish Hicks like YOU is the freakin reason why more than 60% of Maryland Tax Paying Citizens don't work or shop in the state of Maryland and are always commuting to DC and Northern Virginia.

People in DC and Virginia are always laughing at us Marylanders becuase we got people like YOU that try to Chase Job Growth and Business Growth out of Maryland which FORCES MARYLANDERS to go to Virginia and DC to spend their Money and Find High Paying Employment that matches their careers......

Something tells me that your not from Maryland and possible don't reside in Maryland because a True Maryland er would support Increaseing Business, Revenue and Economic Growth at Any Means Neccessary........

Anonymous said...

gohomelexinva said...
Lex, what did I tell you about harrassing the Maryland blogs? go back to you third-rate poor uneducated state while Maryland basks in MAJOR EMPLOYMENT GROWTH from its expertise in AVIATION, BIOTECHNOLOGY, MEDICINE, etc while Virginia is stuck with a bunch of computer geeks making $35K a year thinking they're the top of the world. With MAJOR UPSCALE URBAN RETAIL in BOOMING centers like WHITE FLINT, CHEVY CHASE, BETHESDA, ROCKVILLE, and NATIONAL HARBOR, while depressed Virginia can't wait to get another strip mall with a KFC. The new ICC and PURPLE LINE will leave Virginia in the dust with its on-again off-again rail line to nowhere with a ugly elevated track 50-FEET above the automobile-oriented wasteland that defines Tysons Corner while MARYLAND suburbs grow with major walkable urban development where we are building two Reston Town Centers withing walking distance of each other at TWINBROOK AND NORTH BETHESDA.

Lex, you are a lunatic that needs to go back to your third-rate poor state where you live in a trailer park in that RED NECK INFESTED PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY where you hate spanish people because they are not white trash like you and the rest of your Virginia losers are.

Go back to VA Lex. Do not post on this blog any more. I am not kidding. Go home to VA Lex.

July 15, 2008 5:37 PM

RE: WHO IN THE HELL R YOU THREATNING YOU PIECE OF GARBAGE TROLLING SHITMOUTH AND WHY ARE YOU ASSOCIATING THE NAME LEX TO THE PEOPLE THAT SPREAD THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU MARYLAND HATING HICKS LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



BTW If I didn't know any better I would not be surprised that you would be that troll "Fairfaxian" or "Spoonman" that trolls the Maryland Forum in the city-data website posting those negative comments about Maryland:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/maryland/97757-why-i-left-maryland-16.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/maryland/

rickyr1983 said...

As a Marylander who unfortunately has to travel to No. Virginia for work, I have to agree that it sucks that Maryland doesn't seem to offer it's resident more of the work that is found in No. Va.

That being said, I'm neither here nor there when it comes to small towness and Maple Lawn. To be honest, neither is 100 percent appealing to me. As a young person, the small town life isn't all that appealing to me. I like Whole Foods and I like being able to go to the movies or eat at cool, trendy restaurants. But I also like to barbeque in the backyard sometimes and just enjoy the neighborhood. Route 198 in Burtonsville is a complete eyesore and in no way a triumph of anything. Much like Route 1 in College Park.

Then again, Maple Lawn, with its seemingly endless stripmalls isn't that appealing either. Bethesda, Rockville and Silver Spring seem to have both. Urbanized, townsquare areas and also green, recreational areas. While Burtonsville isn't big enough to do exactly what they do, it'd be best to avoid Maple Lawn's "death by stripmall" scenario and also not dig in its heels into "small towness."

Thomas Hardman said...

> rickyr1983 said...
> [ ... ]
>
> Then again, Maple Lawn, with its
> seemingly endless stripmalls isn't
> that appealing either. Bethesda,
> Rockville and Silver Spring seem to
> have both. Urbanized, townsquare areas
> and also green, recreational areas.
> While Burtonsville isn't big enough to
> do exactly what they do, it'd be best
> to avoid Maple Lawn's "death by
> stripmall" scenario and also not dig
> in its heels into "small towness."

Ah, to reiterate, Burtonsville is hardly a "small town". A "small town" implies that it's a fairly dense development in the midst of farmlands. Rather, Burtonsville is a build-up commercial zone in the midst of a suburban sprawl that is slightly more dense around Burtonsville than in nearby areas (Spencerville, etc).

As it is, MD-198 through Burtonsville is more or less a "fractal strip mall".

The difference between a "fractal" strip mall and any other strip mall is that the average strip mall has most of the storefronts visible from the road, and is aligned parallel with the road. The "fractal" nature comes from convolutions, from storefronts aligned perpendicular to the roadway, and from storefronts hidden from the roadway by other buildings. This allows for a higher density of small shops on any given property, but a general dearth of parking and the limitation of being accessible only from a highway will necessarily limit the amount of business done.

Burtonsville also has a rather spacious office park and one fairly large and nicely filled shopping center, as well as another shopping center about to undergo significant renovation. There is also a fairly large greenspace which is unfortunately a highway right-of-way.

Through the addition of both additional parking and "walkability" to get to the fractal stripmalls from the extant parking, a small-town feel could easily coalesce. Yet that might be a terrible thing for Burtonsville, which already suffers from the traffic load at the major intersections. As a walkable "small-townish" business center, it will need significantly increased mass-transit (or other alternatives to cars) in order to not be crushed by traffic created by being a destination. As it is, just from being a place along major routes, it's being nearly crushed by pass-through traffic. Indeed, the pass-through traffic problem is so severe as to make it almost inaccessible to the locals.

Anonymous said...

Let's see...Maple Lawn has beautiful new homes, great shopping, some of the best schools in the state, and minimal,if any, subsidized housing. New arrivals to this area would have to be completely insane to pick B'ville over Maple Lawn Farm, even if the mailing address of MLF is Scaggsville or Dumptown, for that matter. I say this as a long-time east Mont Co resident who has sadly watched his region decline. Terrible schools, crime, transient neighbors...that's what B'ville has to offer.

Thomas Hardman said...

Heh heh. The latest anonymous coward seems to be setting themselves up to be the public relations department of Maple Lawn...

Remember folks, "transparency in government" isn't the same as "being a transparent sock-puppet".

Anonymous said...

Ahhh. Now we see the real Thomas Hardman. A guy who name calls instead of responding to the issues that are raised. Either agree or disagree (with appropriate reasoning) with my statements, but don't waste our time with your childlike posts.

Joe said...

As for my Burtonsville comment, I'm well aware of Montgomery County, I was making a somewhat sarcastic remark about the whole concept. Burtonsville is NOT what I'd call a "small-town". Not by a long shot. Let's look at it. There is no centralized town core. There's only housing developments, built around shopping centers, car dealerships, and small offices. But I guess in MoCo that's about as close you can get to small town. If the blogger was serious in that remark, then he must not get out a lot. I do not mean to sound insulting either.

Anonymous said...

Thomas Hardman said...

Heh heh. The latest anonymous coward seems to be setting themselves up to be the public relations department of Maple Lawn...

Remember folks, "transparency in government" isn't the same as "being a transparent sock-puppet".

July 16, 2008 2:23 PM

RE: For all we know your name may not be real. Your Bullying and Intimidating other people with your filthy rants ARE NOT SCARING ANYONE.

Your just a bitter Over the Hills Country Hick that wants to REWIND Montgomery County(And All Other Regions of Maryland) back to the Economic Depression/Segregated/Good Ol' Boy Rural Days of the 1930's, 1940's and 1950's. You peoples Ambition to FORCE Dictatorship/Communism/Bureaucracy down the Throats of the Maryland Citizens/Tax Payers will Fail Miserably......

There is NO WAY IN HELL that Northern Virginia is going to continue to Out-Pace Maryland for High Paying Employment Growth, Upscale Attractive Retail Centers(Indoor Malls and Outdoor Town Centers), Better Planned Highways and Rapid Transit, Cheaper Homes(I been hearing recently that Prince William County, Stafford County, and Loudon County Home Prices are becoming Cheaper to Buy), Well Planned School Systems, and Cheaper Taxes........

As long as Maryland continues to fall behind on Improving the Quality of Life for its Tax Paying Citizens, other areas such as DC and Northern Virginia will continue to suck Maryland Citizens out of the state to their Jurisdictions for Work, Shop, and Play............

Joe said...

All of you are really retarded. I am seeing racism from both blacks and whites on this blog, and just a whole lot of nonsense. Let's settle it. East County is now black and largely developed. Maybe one day it will change again (although I doubt it), but the point is to just let the world take its course. Obviously if the people of 1950's Montgomery really wanted to "protect" their community they would have done so. It's too late now. Move on.

Thomas Hardman said...

The anonymous coward trying a stint as a PR flack for Maple Lawn disses Burtonsville as a pestiferous vale of filth and deterioration, and later on an anonymous coward calls me a bullying ranter who may not actually be Thomas Hardman. Ah, compare my posts here with posts on my own blog which you can find off of my personal website. You could also check with the State Board of Elections to see if there's any such person or former campaign. I'm actually real and actually Thomas Hardman. Deal with it, baybee, don't let it waste your time away.

Now I am not going to disrespect Maple Lawn, I haven't seen it, and I'm not going to try to tell you that there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with Burtonsville. Dan's excellent articles on Briggs Chaney and surrounding communities have convinced me that there's lots of room for improvement in Burtonsville, as well as in the rest of the County.

I might point out that if you bothered to research me instead of simply foaming at the mouth -- badly -- you would never have posted those ridiculoue accusations. I'm no hick, I lived for years in some of the worst low-rent zones in the District. Does Clifton Terrace sound familiar? Columbia Heights? I know most every brick in the sidewalks on a personal basis, or at least I did through most of the 1980s, including the height of the crack wars. I know WTF I am talking about and if you think I'm trying to roll back the clock to a lily-white day of Leave It to Beaver, you're either woefully uninformed or just quite mad.

As for communism and taxation, I just ran for County Council on a platform of no tax increases, and more and better enforcement of immigration law especially in low-rent high-crime communities. There's no group in this county that has been put out of work more than the blacks who don't have degrees; if anything, I'm trying to make sure more black families have jobs, income, respect, and a chance to rise upwards. How is that promoting a return to the sad old day of the KKK where everyone was proud to be an ignorant hick? Get a grip, child, and learn how to read and research before you go shooting off your mouth.

I hate all of this MoCo Democrat idiocy about taxing the middle class to death so they can give handouts to illegal aliens and get bribes from the developers that rely on the illegal aliens. That's what I consider to be nothing more nor less than the work of outright Commies. You know, the FMLN and Venezuelan kind.

By the way: People move to Virginia because they are sick of the increasing taxes here, not because they can't get a good job. MoCo is flooded with job opportunities for anyone with a degree in the sciences or in engineering. Want a job in MoCo? All you need is an AA degree in healthcare. Want to get rich in MoCo? Be a doctor. Want to do something that really matters? Be a rocket scientist. Want to be someone who can't afford MoCo? Keep on with your blatant illiteracy and you'll fit in just fine across the river.

Um Joe: East County is black? I dunno, I'm not black and neither is my mom or sister and we live in and like living in east MoCo, at least as regards our fellow Americans we don't much care about skin color. That would be un-American, dontcha know.

Everyone: I am not at all sure that race has any place in this discussion, I sure hadn't heard that either Maple Lawn or Burtonsville were hotbeds of racism. I do know that probably the main problem in Burtonsville is that it just hasn't got the road system to handle all of the vehicular traffic in a beneficial way, and the walkability just isn't there in a lot of ways. More importantly, the ability to change modes from vehicular to pedestrian and back again is very hampered, and significant and useful mass-transit or alternatives to any of the previous (such as bike trails) seems to be lacking.

As for the anonymous coward: try staying on topic instead of trying to troll the rest of us into your own field of interests, which frankly are poorly stated and "old news" to most everyone else here. Furthermore, try getting a Name.

Joe said...

Hey Tom, unless you're in a coma, you must've noticed East County is majority black. And if you read my post, I insinuated nothing bad about that fact.

Dave Murphy said...

Joe-
Briggs Chaney is predominantly black> I disagree that the rest of East County is predominantly black.

Anonymous-
I rescind my insinuations about Maple Lawn, but first let me say that I grew up in downtown Silver Spring, currently live in Laurel Lakes, and work at Fort Meade. I am very much a Marylander, and most people probably wouldn't call me a "hick". If you're a Howard County resident, forgive my rant. It had been a long day.

My initial (and ranting, angry) reaction to this post was based on the assumption that Maple Lawn was another Columbia neighborhood, a space wasting spread out tumor with bad street connectivity, poor pedestrian quality, the kind of neighborhood where you need a car to get anywhere. I looked at the site and that is apparently not the case (though the neighborhood seems to not connect to the schools, which is a major flaw). Maple Lawn is actually the kind of transit-oriented development that should be occurring along 29.

Dan, If I misrepresent you with the following, please correct me. Maple Lawn, though very progressive by Howard County standards of development, might come off as a little prefabricated. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however it generally implies that local and independent businesses won't be able to stand up to the national chains that exist in the development. I think this might be what Dan means by "small town charm", which could otherwise suitably describe Maple Lawn by virtue of ML's walkability.

I believe a little prefabricated commerce can help the local and independent businesses by attracting people with name recognition. they coexist side by side in downtown Silver Spring: the plaza area has all the chains, Georgia Avenue has all the quirky restaurants and shops. Perhaps the trick is restricting the prefab businesses so that they don't offer services that existing local shops might offer: i.e. if there's a already local coffee shop, build a Chipotle instead of a Starbucks in the "prefab" area.

As far as "small town", I don't think anywhere between DC and Baltimore can qualify for such status ever again. But that doesn't mean that the small businesses have to go. B-ville losing the Dutch Country Market is a major blow, and if keeping those eclectic independent businesses is what is meant "small town charm", then absolutely it should be preserved.

Thomas Hardman said...

Dave,

That concept about what I can paraphrase as a "prefabricated business community" is an interesting one. But it makes sense, possibly in a context you didn't intend.

Okay, say you're a developer plopping a prefabricated community into place. You're going to need amenities including vendors and shops. So who do you call? Most likely you contract out to national chains and to some local "big power" chains such as Giant Food or CVS. Big Name Anchors, more or less.

Now suppose we take your proposal one step further, with the proviso that rather than leasing a new Starbucks to crush a local coffee shop -- or leasing a new Chipotle rather than a Starbucks so as to avoid crushing a local coffee shop -- let's posit that there is no local coffee shop. Let's further posit that for some reason you decided that there ought to not be a Starbucks, and that you'd rather have a local coffee shop, or a locally-based small chain, whatever.

Maybe you plop down a mall with some Big Name Anchors and reserve a certain percentage of storefront for local start-up businesses, or expansion frontage for a locally-base small chain? Sort of like MPDU, but it's for competitive retail rather than concerned with housing.

Sort of as an example, see the print-edition-only article in today's Post about Tryst in Adams Morgan. Starbucks isn't doing well there, but Tryst evidently is doing well enough to open another store in town. It's a local owner with a nearly unique variation on coffee shop. Honestly, this might be outside of the argument I am trying to make, since his spot wasn't reserved for him like an MPDU. Still, "local" can succeed even in the face of national chain-store "recipe for success", anmd indeed might persist and do well even when national chains cannot.

Just some thoughta...

GoHomeLexInVA said...

Lex, this is the final warning. Get your white trailer trash toothless hillbilly ass out of the Maryland blogs. There must be plenty of things for you to do in Prince William County. Here's a few options:
1) get your sister pregnant
2) call up your KKK buddies to round up some poor hard working spanish people
3) fix up your trailer
4) get off your computer and get out to see your loser state of Virginia with its sorry economy based on $25K/yr IT geeks. If you can escape your gridlocked, polluted, substandard quality of life in Virginia and cross the Potomac to Maryland where we are building MAJOR NEW UPSCALE RETAIL, TWO RESTON TOWN CENTERS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF EACH OTHER, A MAJOR NEW SUPERHIGHWAY, FIRST RATE QUALITY OF LIFE while Virginia gridlocks itself into becoming a third rate Midwestern state where the toothless hillbillies like yourself roam your trailer parks and look forward to your next trip to Walmart and your next date with your sister.

Lex, Go home back to VA. This is my final warning.

Dan Reed said...

So much hating here on the comment threads. I go away for a day and everything goes to hell. Do I need to hire a blog lifeguard or something?

Anonymous said...

Thomas Hardman said...
The anonymous coward trying a stint as a PR flack for Maple Lawn disses Burtonsville as a pestiferous vale of filth and deterioration, and later on an anonymous coward calls me a bullying ranter who may not actually be Thomas Hardman. Ah, compare my posts here with posts on my own blog which you can find off of my personal website. You could also check with the State Board of Elections to see if there's any such person or former campaign. I'm actually real and actually Thomas Hardman. Deal with it, baybee, don't let it waste your time away.

Now I am not going to disrespect Maple Lawn, I haven't seen it, and I'm not going to try to tell you that there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with Burtonsville. Dan's excellent articles on Briggs Chaney and surrounding communities have convinced me that there's lots of room for improvement in Burtonsville, as well as in the rest of the County.

I might point out that if you bothered to research me instead of simply foaming at the mouth -- badly -- you would never have posted those ridiculoue accusations. I'm no hick, I lived for years in some of the worst low-rent zones in the District. Does Clifton Terrace sound familiar? Columbia Heights? I know most every brick in the sidewalks on a personal basis, or at least I did through most of the 1980s, including the height of the crack wars. I know WTF I am talking about and if you think I'm trying to roll back the clock to a lily-white day of Leave It to Beaver, you're either woefully uninformed or just quite mad.

As for communism and taxation, I just ran for County Council on a platform of no tax increases, and more and better enforcement of immigration law especially in low-rent high-crime communities. There's no group in this county that has been put out of work more than the blacks who don't have degrees; if anything, I'm trying to make sure more black families have jobs, income, respect, and a chance to rise upwards. How is that promoting a return to the sad old day of the KKK where everyone was proud to be an ignorant hick? Get a grip, child, and learn how to read and research before you go shooting off your mouth.

I hate all of this MoCo Democrat idiocy about taxing the middle class to death so they can give handouts to illegal aliens and get bribes from the developers that rely on the illegal aliens. That's what I consider to be nothing more nor less than the work of outright Commies. You know, the FMLN and Venezuelan kind.

By the way: People move to Virginia because they are sick of the increasing taxes here, not because they can't get a good job. MoCo is flooded with job opportunities for anyone with a degree in the sciences or in engineering. Want a job in MoCo? All you need is an AA degree in healthcare. Want to get rich in MoCo? Be a doctor. Want to do something that really matters? Be a rocket scientist. Want to be someone who can't afford MoCo? Keep on with your blatant illiteracy and you'll fit in just fine across the river.

Um Joe: East County is black? I dunno, I'm not black and neither is my mom or sister and we live in and like living in east MoCo, at least as regards our fellow Americans we don't much care about skin color. That would be un-American, dontcha know.

Everyone: I am not at all sure that race has any place in this discussion, I sure hadn't heard that either Maple Lawn or Burtonsville were hotbeds of racism. I do know that probably the main problem in Burtonsville is that it just hasn't got the road system to handle all of the vehicular traffic in a beneficial way, and the walkability just isn't there in a lot of ways. More importantly, the ability to change modes from vehicular to pedestrian and back again is very hampered, and significant and useful mass-transit or alternatives to any of the previous (such as bike trails) seems to be lacking.

As for the anonymous coward: try staying on topic instead of trying to troll the rest of us into your own field of interests, which frankly are poorly stated and "old news" to most everyone else here. Furthermore, try getting a Name.

July 16, 2008 7:45 PM

RE: All of that wasted typing and BS Ranting still doesn't say a D*a*mn thing to prove that your screen name is your true Government Name....

And again your Bullying and Vicious Intimidating Rants is NOT SCARING ANYONE. And as long as People like you continue to try to sabotage ALL forms of Upscale Retail and High Paying Economic Growth with your anti-Chain Business Rants and Dislike for Tall Modernize Office Towers then then there is No Way for Maryland to Acheive Economic/Business/Revenue Wealth.........

Anonymous said...

Dave Murphy said...
Joe-
Briggs Chaney is predominantly black> I disagree that the rest of East County is predominantly black.

Anonymous-
I rescind my insinuations about Maple Lawn, but first let me say that I grew up in downtown Silver Spring, currently live in Laurel Lakes, and work at Fort Meade. I am very much a Marylander, and most people probably wouldn't call me a "hick". If you're a Howard County resident, forgive my rant. It had been a long day.

My initial (and ranting, angry) reaction to this post was based on the assumption that Maple Lawn was another Columbia neighborhood, a space wasting spread out tumor with bad street connectivity, poor pedestrian quality, the kind of neighborhood where you need a car to get anywhere. I looked at the site and that is apparently not the case (though the neighborhood seems to not connect to the schools, which is a major flaw). Maple Lawn is actually the kind of transit-oriented development that should be occurring along 29.

Dan, If I misrepresent you with the following, please correct me. Maple Lawn, though very progressive by Howard County standards of development, might come off as a little prefabricated. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however it generally implies that local and independent businesses won't be able to stand up to the national chains that exist in the development. I think this might be what Dan means by "small town charm", which could otherwise suitably describe Maple Lawn by virtue of ML's walkability.

I believe a little prefabricated commerce can help the local and independent businesses by attracting people with name recognition. they coexist side by side in downtown Silver Spring: the plaza area has all the chains, Georgia Avenue has all the quirky restaurants and shops. Perhaps the trick is restricting the prefab businesses so that they don't offer services that existing local shops might offer: i.e. if there's a already local coffee shop, build a Chipotle instead of a Starbucks in the "prefab" area.

As far as "small town", I don't think anywhere between DC and Baltimore can qualify for such status ever again. But that doesn't mean that the small businesses have to go. B-ville losing the Dutch Country Market is a major blow, and if keeping those eclectic independent businesses is what is meant "small town charm", then absolutely it should be preserved.

July 16, 2008 8:55 PM

RE: First you say that people don't consider you a Hick(but then again it maybe said when your back is turned), but then you make the statement: if keeping those eclectic independent businesses is what is meant "small town charm", then absolutely it should be preserved.

That is what most people define as speaking from both sides of the cheek aka Hypocritsy..........

Dave Murphy said...

Anon,
I don't think anyone is trying to rid the region of ALL forms of upscale retail or modern office buildings.

national retail chains are a good thing so long as they don't snuff out locally owned small and independent businesses. These businesses have the incentive of keeping the community in mind, which forces competition to for the national chains,forcing them to maintain some level of "best interest" in the community.

As for modern office spaces, I'm all for them. I don't know if a large scale project would fit at Burtonsville Crossing (yet) but certainly it wouldn't be a bad idea in other parts of East County that could use some better jobs.

I don't want to speak for Hardman, but I didn't get that impression from what he was saying. Big companies attract people with name recognition, small companies keep the community flavor and keep the big chains honest. It's a symbiotic relationship if you do it right, and an excellent business model.

Anonymous said...

Thomas Hardman said...
Dave,

That concept about what I can paraphrase as a "prefabricated business community" is an interesting one. But it makes sense, possibly in a context you didn't intend.

Okay, say you're a developer plopping a prefabricated community into place. You're going to need amenities including vendors and shops. So who do you call? Most likely you contract out to national chains and to some local "big power" chains such as Giant Food or CVS. Big Name Anchors, more or less.

Now suppose we take your proposal one step further, with the proviso that rather than leasing a new Starbucks to crush a local coffee shop -- or leasing a new Chipotle rather than a Starbucks so as to avoid crushing a local coffee shop -- let's posit that there is no local coffee shop. Let's further posit that for some reason you decided that there ought to not be a Starbucks, and that you'd rather have a local coffee shop, or a locally-based small chain, whatever.

Maybe you plop down a mall with some Big Name Anchors and reserve a certain percentage of storefront for local start-up businesses, or expansion frontage for a locally-base small chain? Sort of like MPDU, but it's for competitive retail rather than concerned with housing.

Sort of as an example, see the print-edition-only article in today's Post about Tryst in Adams Morgan. Starbucks isn't doing well there, but Tryst evidently is doing well enough to open another store in town. It's a local owner with a nearly unique variation on coffee shop. Honestly, this might be outside of the argument I am trying to make, since his spot wasn't reserved for him like an MPDU. Still, "local" can succeed even in the face of national chain-store "recipe for success", anmd indeed might persist and do well even when national chains cannot.

Just some thoughta...

July 16, 2008 9:53 PM

RE: Yeah but that wonderful piece of Property South of the potomac River that People like to call Virginia has SEVERAL National Chain Businesses Throughout the Region of Northern Virginia with no special media story about National Retail Chains suffering from Economically. Its freaking strange that special people will Argue Against Chain Businesses in Maryland but the Sametime they will Travel to any Upscale Retail Centers in Northern Virginia and Give their money to the Chain Retail Stores/Restaurants without any regrets...........

Anonymous said...

GoHomeLexInVA said...
Lex, this is the final warning. Get your white trailer trash toothless hillbilly ass out of the Maryland blogs. There must be plenty of things for you to do in Prince William County. Here's a few options:
1) get your sister pregnant
2) call up your KKK buddies to round up some poor hard working spanish people
3) fix up your trailer
4) get off your computer and get out to see your loser state of Virginia with its sorry economy based on $25K/yr IT geeks. If you can escape your gridlocked, polluted, substandard quality of life in Virginia and cross the Potomac to Maryland where we are building MAJOR NEW UPSCALE RETAIL, TWO RESTON TOWN CENTERS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF EACH OTHER, A MAJOR NEW SUPERHIGHWAY, FIRST RATE QUALITY OF LIFE while Virginia gridlocks itself into becoming a third rate Midwestern state where the toothless hillbillies like yourself roam your trailer parks and look forward to your next trip to Walmart and your next date with your sister.

Lex, Go home back to VA. This is my final warning.

July 16, 2008 11:18 PM

RE: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

This Filthy Pale Face Redneck Son of Trailor Trash B***** thinks he's THREATENING Somebody...

No one is scared of you, ya Paint Sniffing Maryland Hating Communist Spewing Psycho Nut Job.......

gohometovalex said...

Lex,
only you are the Maryland-hating toothless trailer trash troll. Don't you KKK people in Prince William County have anything better to do than harrass the poor hardworking spanish people that come to America for a better life. You like to beat down on people who are below your social position. But I am beating down on you becuase Prince William trailer trash needs to go back to Virginia, the TRASH CAPITAL OF AMERICA.

Go Home to VA Lex.

Anonymous said...

gohometovalex said...
Lex,
only you are the Maryland-hating toothless trailer trash troll. Don't you KKK people in Prince William County have anything better to do than harrass the poor hardworking spanish people that come to America for a better life. You like to beat down on people who are below your social position. But I am beating down on you becuase Prince William trailer trash needs to go back to Virginia, the TRASH CAPITAL OF AMERICA.

Go Home to VA Lex.

July 17, 2008 2:41 AM

RE: Right now I'm feeling very Generous....

I will stop making posts on this topic If You can prove beyond Reasonable Doubt that I stated in this or any other topics on this website of me being a Tax Paying Citizen that Resides in Prince William County or any part of the State of Virginia. Hell I'll make it easier by you providing proof that I have made any past statements that I was thinking of, making plans of, or Definately moving to the State of Virginia.....

Remember if you can prove it I Promise that I will Never post anymore on this page.........

Joe said...

Okay, all of East County is not majority black, however it is definately trending that way. As an alumnus of Paint Branch High School, I can tell you things have certainly changed. In my day it was 80-85% white in comparison to the current enrollment, which is 46.4% black. Also Blake is 38.7% black, Kennedy is 44.2%, and Springbrook is 46.4% All of these enrollments represent the plurality of each school. No one can sit here and tell me that parts of East County and ultimately all of East County will be majority (>50%) black. But back to my main point, Burtonsville is losing its "mom and pop" shops. And look the Amish market isn't even there anymore.

Thomas Hardman said...

Joe,

From where I sit in Aspen Hill, it looks as if East County is majority spanish-speaking native-americans with a slight admixture of blacks (both Afro-American and African), with some "middle-eastern" types and some far-eastern folks. At least in my part of Aspen Hill, there are almost no northern-euro-ancestry types under the age of 50, and the few of those under 50 that I see are either trying to move out of their parents' houses or are providing aging-in-place eldercare. I'd guess that there is definitely some "white flight" going on, mostly out to McMansion land in Olney or beyond, or downtown for the hipsters and yuppies.

I fit into the eldercare category at this point, I assure you with total seriousness that I'm not living here in Aspen Hill because of the friendly neighbors, most of whom probably wouldn't speak to me even if they had the English to do so. My former elementary school, Brookhaven, has one of the highest levels of students claiming poverty benefits such as subsidized lunches, etc., and the foreclosure/mortgage crisis is having a huge impact here. Almost every day I watch some family move in with another family, but those aren't black families.

There are some "traditionally black" enclaves on the east side of Georgia Avenue, but those also are becoming a whole lot less black. Indeed, at the height of the housing bubble, significant amounts of subsidized rental housing has been lost to conversion to condominium.

joe said...

That's well and all, but that's just your pocket of Aspen Hill, and does not fully mirror all of East County.

joe said...

That's well and all, but that's just your pocket of Aspen Hill, and does not fully mirror all of East County.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Montgomery County's Black population is projected to decline in the next 50 years, which is interesting since Montgomery County is slated to gain 250,000 new residents in a county that is virtually built out. Increases in the Asian population may eventually overtake Hispanics as the dominant minority group, of course by then there will be no majority group. Once the ICC is completed and major new housing and business development in the East County US 29 corridor increases housing values and makes living in the East County with quick access to the I-270 corridor more attractive for a more diverse array of people. Many of the lower class people that populate White Oak and Briggs Chaney will be forced out when those apartment complexes are eventually redeveloped.

Thomas Hardman said...

Joe,

If you somehow got the idea that I was trying to convince anyone that there weren't any black people in Aspen Hill, "that doesn't happen to be the case".

There are indeed quite a lot, but I wouldn't classify it as "majority black". Indeed, there isn't any clear majority other than at school age, where the "latinos" (whatever that means) outnumber everyone else.

Also, look at the latest, rather outdated, Census and the US Bureau of Vital Statistics sites. For US-born persons of Asian origins, they have the second lowest birth-rate, well below replacement levels. My point here is that it's not likely that non-immigrant Asian-origin populations will grow much.

And to whichever Anonymous this is,

You keep talking about the ICC and the I-270 Corridor as if we'll still be driving cars to work or on business in 2050, which is about the timeframe you're projecting.

Everyone: You all seem to be ignoring the greatest demographic change of all, which is more cultural than ethnic. Yet culture is one of the most powerful determinants of land use and interpersonal space.

The demographic/cultural change to which I refer is the increasing prevalence of -- and in an increasing number of cases, the increasing preferance for -- female head-of-household single-mom family structures.

The phenomenon is extremely prevalent in parts of Aspen Hill, and it has caused a lot of rapid adaptations in social systems, not all of which seem to be working to well as they were adopted on-the-fly. For example, a heavy surplus of working moms causes a huge need for day-care facilities or workers. Further, there's a huge need for after-school and out-for-summer programs and facilities which have to act as the supervisors for minors and children whose parents are too busy working to be home watching the kids.

How will we have to restructure our present approaches to Urban Planning to allow for this?

Joe said...

Thomas, I agree with essentially everything you say. I am all too familiar with Aspen Hill having resided in Wheaton, Olney, Burtonsville, and Silver Spring (downtown). In my eyes I always saw Aspen Hill as being incredibly diverse. It is mainly a mix of older whites, new immigrant families (mainly Hispanic and Asian, but some from Europe) and a significant number of blacks scattered throughout. However, I don't think this really reflects the trends that are continuing throughout East MoCo.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Actually, Montgomery County's Black population is projected to decline in the next 50 years, which is interesting since Montgomery County is slated to gain 250,000 new residents in a county that is virtually built out. Increases in the Asian population may eventually overtake Hispanics as the dominant minority group, of course by then there will be no majority group. Once the ICC is completed and major new housing and business development in the East County US 29 corridor increases housing values and makes living in the East County with quick access to the I-270 corridor more attractive for a more diverse array of people. Many of the lower class people that populate White Oak and Briggs Chaney will be forced out when those apartment complexes are eventually redeveloped.

July 17, 2008 5:09 PM

RE: If your projections hold water then where do you think will African Americans will migrate to and does same Projections applies to Fairfax County and other counties in the DC region.......

Thomas Hardman said...

> Anonymous Anonymous said...
>
> > Anonymous said...
> >
> > Actually, Montgomery County's
> > Black population is projected to
> > decline in the next 50 years, [...]
>
> RE: If your projections hold water
> then where do you think will African
> Americans will migrate to and does
> same Projections applies to Fairfax
> County and other counties in the DC
> region.......

Honestly, I don't think that Afro-Americans (black families with long history in North America) will be migrating all that much. More likely they'll be combining a climb in social position, mostly through educational opportunity and other equalizing factors, and I suspect that the current trend of interracial/intercultural marriage and association will continue. I know "whites" who are culturally "black" in a lot of ways and blacks who are so mainstreamed that they think of themselves as just being American in the same way that I usually think of myself as being American rather than German-American. (I don't consider myself "white" as much as I consider myself German-American, when I bother to think about it at all.) This sort of thing is going on all over the place, people are losing their ethnic and even national identity, with much of that subsumed in subculture which often ignores ethnicity (as, in my opinion, it should).

For example, you have black Goths, white guys and gals in the Hip-Hop culture, Hispanic Republicans, Devout Christian Democrats, and doctors and lawyers are pretty color-blind and only care much about science and law and the rest of the stuff is fairly irrelevant to them. Cops are cops and they're just there to enforce the law, which grants equal protection and equal enforcement to all under the Constitution. So I think the whole thing about "race" and ethnicity is going away, and probably it should.

I keep telling people that back in the days of WWI, my dad's family, town, and county all decided to stop speaking German, ever. They'd settled the frontier in the 1800s and made it their own, but to the rest of the country, they were those weird hicks from those towns that didn't speak English. We gave up speaking German and gave up being "auslanders" ("Germans not in Germany") and were just Americans and stopped caring about being our own people. It was the best decision we ever made.

I see people from other ethnicities increasingly making the same decision. Your genetics are your genetics and it's good to understand your history, but it's a lot more important to be an American in America and increasingly to be a global citizen of planet Earth. We're all connected and migrating as "a people" and making decisions on ethnic bases, that's not really sensible unless you are confronted with people who still are ruled by all of that ethnic-national mindset and only care about what their own kind can take away from everyone else.

Why would "blacks" migrate geographically? Why doesn't everyone just migrate to upwards mobility in terms of education and income? A better question to ask would be "where will the poor go" because in 50 years or more, it might not be blacks or hispanics or asians or euros or mediterraneans who are the impoverished or "underclass". That might have some basis entirely other than ethnicity. But a good question certainly would be "where will the poor go".

Back to Amish country, maybe?

Sanjay said...

Anon is correct: Official county demographic projections provided by MNCPPC, like it or not, do call for a slight decline in the black population in Montgomery County. I don't know where they are migrating to beyond Montgomery's typical migration patterns to Howard, Hagerstown and Frederick, actually they do not technically have to be migrating anywhere Mr. Hardman. Its just that blacks are not migrating much to Montgomery County in the first place. Whats left of the middle class black population in DC isn't moving to MoCo. Most people from PG end up moving to Anne Arundel and Charles, not MoCo. I'll leave it up to Mr Hardman to conjecture the reasons for the stagnation in black population with his very active, at times child-like, imagination (possibly why he could not run an effective campaign). Montgomery County will always be home to the black upper class. From Tom Joyner's Potomac Castle to Ike Leggett's Burtonsville MegaMansion.

Thomas Hardman said...

> Sanjay said...
>
> Anon is correct: Official county
> demographic projections provided by
> MNCPPC, like it or not, do call for a
> slight decline in the black population
> in Montgomery County. I don't know
> where they are migrating to beyond
> Montgomery's typical migration
> patterns to Howard, Hagerstown and
> Frederick, actually they do not
> technically have to be migrating
> anywhere Mr. Hardman. Its just that
> blacks are not migrating much to
> Montgomery County in the first place.
> Whats left of the middle class black
> population in DC isn't moving to MoCo.
> Most people from PG end up moving to
> Anne Arundel and Charles, not MoCo.
> I'll leave it up to Mr Hardman to
> conjecture the reasons for the
> stagnation in black population with
> his very active, at times child-like,
> imagination (possibly why he could not
> run an effective campaign). Montgomery
> County will always be home to the
> black upper class. From Tom Joyner's
> Potomac Castle to Ike Leggett's
> Burtonsville MegaMansion.

Sanjay appears to be another person who isn't reading what I wrote. I closed my remarks with a question, summarized as "why would blacks migrate out of MoCo" and I didn't see any reason they'd migrate anywhere except upward, in the socioeconomic sense.

Now, let's take a look at some recent history. Keep in mind that over the 1990s, the District (DC ya know) lost about one sixth of its population, and that wasn't all only the black middle class of the District, which was in fact very substantial and well-established. During the period of Revitalization under the DCFRA Control Board, there was also the beginning implimentation of the end to "weflare as we know it". The included major deconstruction of various subsidized housing projects downtown.

At the same time as housing became somewhat scarce and rents began to rise downtown in the wake of revitalization, the DotCom thing was on the upswing and a lot of gentrification was occurring. DC's "welfare class" began to be pushed out of the city, mostly by market forces. Part of those market forces included the fact that PG County was far less expensive in terms of rental housing than was Montgomery, so that was the primary destination at first. So much so, in fact, that PG County Exec Curry complained bitterly that the District under the Control Board was dumping its poor into PG and that he considered increased welfare expenditures there to be effectively an unfunded mandate imposed (indirectly) by Congress on his jurisdiction outside of legal routes. Whatever, once PG's "affordable" areas filled up, that meant all that was left was comparatively expensive MoCo.

And where in MoCo is affordable? A lot of the displaced downtown poor had relatives who had moved out early on, generally more upscale middle-class, who helped them get established out here, or at least into housing.

For some years I have been working as an activist in Aspen Hill, mostly dealing with trying to reduce crime by reducing the generally-accepted causes of crime which are poor education and general poverty. And one fact stands out, there have always been bad-actors out here but the real problems are imported, mostly from PG and the District. In particular we see folks from right down there in Langley Park who hover around the meeting point of the PC, MoCo, and District lines. We all know who's likely to be a problem, when they come from here, and intervention from all directions tends to deal with what we all see coming. But people from outside can cause a lot of problems before we figure out who they are and where they're coming from. I'm sure that PG and the District have comparable issues with people coming from outside of their jurisdictions.

Now, due to a lot of factors, housing prices in the District, PG, and MoCo are stabilizing and to some degree equalizing. The population of the District is growing as more housing is in place, but more importantly a dozen or more years of Revitalization has restored the integrity and ability of the District's social support systems. Before, they were broken and destitute and that's no longer the case, they're comparable to those of neighboring jurisdictions.

Thus, if there's any "black migration out of MoCo", it's quite likely to consist of the young professionals class moving downtown where the action is, where there's money to be made and a city and culture to build and rebuild. In the meanwhile, population normally grows only with a high birth-rate and as educational attainment increases the birth rate drops. That might explain the projected decline in MoCo black population as well as it could be explained by migration.

Stephen Mangiulli said...

Please update this blog.....talk about how Burtonsville Crossing is totally dying out. Also talk about how much people in Bville are obsessed with the new Roy Rogers. I moved out of Bville and moved to Jessup.